Brief Summary
This episode of The Deep End features Jamie and Donna Winship, co-founders of Identity Exchange, discussing their personal stories, faith, and strategies for helping others connect with God. Donna shares her journey from Judaism to Christianity, while Jamie recounts his experiences in ministry and law enforcement. They emphasize the importance of experiential encounters with God, living fearlessly in one's true identity, and sharing faith through genuine connection rather than formulaic methods.
- Experiential encounters with God are transformative.
- Living fearlessly stems from embracing one's true identity.
- Sharing faith involves genuine connection and truth-telling.
- Disappointment in prayer can be understood through trusting God's will.
- Fear often points to underlying lies that need to be addressed.
Start
Taylor and Jake introduce Jamie Winship and his wife, Donna, co-founders of Identity Exchange, an agency focused on transformative training and consulting. They highlight the agency's work with leaders across various sectors, emphasizing the power of learning to live fearlessly in one's true identity. Jamie's previous appearance on the show received high praise, and there's anticipation for further insights from the couple.
Donna's Background and Meeting Jamie
Donna shares her background, growing up in a Jewish home with a strong emphasis on tradition but lacking a personal relationship with God. She describes her search for purpose and identity, which led her to a "rough crowd" in college. A friend introduced her to Jamie, who bluntly told her she was sinful and separated from God. Offended by this approach, Donna initially rejected Jamie's message but later married him.
Donna's Conversion from Judaism
Jamie elaborates on their initial encounter, noting Donna's strong Jewish identity and his own attempts to share his faith. Donna recalls staying up until 3 AM discussing the Messiah in the Old Testament, which sparked a spiritual dilemma. She grappled with the idea of embracing Jesus as the Messiah while feeling a sense of betrayal to her Jewish heritage. It took her five years after marrying Jamie to pray in the name of Jesus, highlighting the depth of her internal conflict.
The Starbucks Encounter...
Jamie and Donna recount the story of meeting a young woman with red hair and tattoos at Starbucks. Donna felt led to connect with her and invited her to live with them. This woman later accompanied Jamie on a mission trip to Kosovo, where her unconventional approach led to a significant spiritual breakthrough. Despite Jamie's initial reservations, the woman's faith and boldness resulted in a powerful movement among young Muslims.
The Covert Strategy
Jamie describes his initial strategy for the Kosovo trip, which involved pairing the red-haired woman with a younger, more obedient girl to monitor her actions. He aimed to mitigate any potential disruptions caused by her unconventional behavior. However, the woman's genuine faith and willingness to engage with Muslims directly challenged Jamie's preconceived notions.
A Mission Begins
Despite Jamie's attempts to control the situation, the red-haired woman and the younger girl went out on their own and encountered a Muslim family. They were invited into the family's home and shared their faith, leading to a transformative experience. This event sparked a movement in the city, with many young Muslims expressing a desire to hear from God.
Faith and Miracles
Jamie recounts his surprise upon discovering that the red-haired woman and the younger girl had disobeyed his instructions and initiated a spiritual breakthrough. He realized that their approach was more effective than his own carefully planned strategy. This experience led him to adopt their method and encourage the rest of the team to engage with Muslims directly, resulting in a powerful movement in Kosovo.
Understanding Disappointment in Prayer
Donna explains that the red-haired woman's lack of disappointment when immediate results weren't seen stemmed from her understanding that God's timing and methods differ from human expectations. She trusted that God would speak in His own way and time, demonstrating courage rooted in experiential knowledge.
The Role of Fear
Jamie and Donna discuss the importance of identifying and addressing underlying fears in prayer and relationships. They emphasize that true intimacy comes from sharing one's deepest fears and allowing God to guide the journey. By acknowledging and confronting these fears, individuals can experience greater freedom and connection with God and others.
Living with Intention
Donna emphasizes the importance of living with intention and taking every thought captive, aligning it with the character of God. She explains that obedience, in its true sense, means listening and responding to God's guidance. By practicing this discipline, individuals can cultivate a deeper relationship with God and experience transformation in their lives.
Sharing Your Faith Effectively
Jamie shares his insights on effective evangelism, emphasizing the importance of genuine connection and truth-telling. He explains that sharing one's faith involves being incarnational, meeting people where they are, and addressing their underlying fears. By focusing on truth and offering companionship, individuals can create space for others to encounter God in a meaningful way.
Hearing Holy Spirit in Chaos
Jamie emphasizes that the Holy Spirit often moves in chaotic situations, creating order and filling the void. He encourages listeners to identify the chaos in their lives and recognize that the Spirit is present, ready to bring transformation. By sharing personal stories of faith and vulnerability, individuals can create space for others to encounter God's love and grace.
Learning to Hear God
Jamie shares his experience of learning to hear God's voice, comparing it to a rookie cop learning to hear their number called on the radio. He emphasizes the importance of training, discipline, and mentorship in developing this skill. Donna adds that God speaks through various means, including imagination, feelings, and even physical sensations.
Trusting God Through Struggles
Donna shares a personal story of trusting God through Jamie's struggle with alcohol. She describes her initial desperation and frustration, but ultimately learned to trust God's timing and plan. Jamie recounts his own experience of hitting rock bottom and surrendering to God's will. They emphasize that God is faithful even in the midst of struggles and that these experiences can lead to greater wholeness and purpose.
Final Thoughts and Farewell
Taylor expresses gratitude for Jamie and Donna's insights, highlighting the importance of trusting God in all circumstances. Jamie shares a final anecdote about a man struggling with shame, emphasizing the power of forgiveness and grace. The episode concludes with a sense of hope and encouragement, reminding listeners that they can trust God no matter what it looks like.
