TLDR;
This podcast episode features John Burke, an expert on near-death experiences (NDEs), interviewed by Abigail Robertson. Burke, initially an agnostic, shares how studying NDEs led him to faith. He discusses common elements reported by those who have clinically died and been resuscitated, such as leaving their bodies, observing events, and encountering a God of light. The conversation explores the nature of heaven, the spiritual realm, life reviews, and the role of angels, providing a detailed look into the afterlife experiences.
- Near-death experiences often involve leaving the body and observing the surrounding environment.
- The spiritual realm is real and may involve a spiritual battle.
- Heaven is a continuation of life, filled with light, love, and deeper relationships.
Introduction to Near-Death Experiences [0:00]
Abigail Robertson introduces John Burke, an expert in near-death experiences (NDEs) who has interviewed over 1,500 people who have died and returned. Burke shares that he began as an agnostic and his interest in NDEs was sparked when his father was dying of cancer and given research on the topic. He was intrigued by the accounts of people feeling more alive than ever in a place more real than life, often in the presence of a God of light. This led him to explore the Bible and eventually transition from engineering to ministry, founding a church for skeptics. Burke wrote "Imagine Heaven" in 2015, highlighting 40 commonalities in NDEs that align with biblical descriptions of the afterlife, aiming to make heaven more imaginable.
Defining Near-Death Experiences [6:56]
Burke clarifies that the individuals he studies are clinically dead, with no heartbeat or brain waves, and are later resuscitated. He acknowledges the term "near-death experience" is not his favorite but used it to bring these experiences into Christian discussions, as they were often dismissed as new age. A Gallup poll indicated that one in 25 Americans have reported an NDE. Burke emphasizes that the people he interviews often have physical evidence of their experiences, such as scars from tracheotomies or injuries from accidents, lending credibility to their accounts.
Commonalities of Heaven Experiences [10:23]
Burke details common experiences reported by individuals who have died and gone to heaven. People often leave their bodies and observe what is happening around them, feeling more alive and aware. They possess a spiritual body, as described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, which is raised in power. This body enhances senses, allowing for perfect eyesight, thought-to-thought communication, and the ability to travel instantaneously. Many individuals report feeling like themselves and life continues.
The Welcoming Committee and the Tunnel [14:15]
People are often greeted by angels or loved ones who have passed away, acting as a welcoming committee. Sometimes, these figures tell them it is not their time and they must return. A portal or tunnel often appears, which Burke believes is for protection as the spiritual realm around us is a place of war. He references the concept of first, second, and third heavens, with the third heaven being the holy city of God.
Describing the Dimensions of Heaven [18:31]
Burke explains the difficulty in describing heaven, comparing it to explaining three-dimensional color to someone living in a flat, black-and-white, two-dimensional world. He notes that descriptions of heaven in Revelation, such as streets of gold and pearl gates, are often perceived as cheesy but are actually otherworldly materials beyond our comprehension.
Reasons for Returning and Life Review [22:20]
People return from near-death experiences because they have a purpose on Earth, which may involve influencing those around them in simple, everyday ways. Sometimes, individuals are given a choice to stay or return. Ian McCormack's story is shared, where he was stung by jellyfish and had a vision of his mother, leading him to pray to Jesus and ultimately choose to return to Earth to influence others. The life review is another common element, where individuals see their life replay, often not chronologically, and feel the emotions of themselves and others involved.
The Light of Heaven and Welcoming Committee [28:32]
Those who experience NDEs often travel through a tunnel and see the light of heaven, which is unlike any other light. Blind people report being able to see during these experiences, describing light emanating from everything, conveying love and life. Vicki, a blind girl, saw a welcoming committee, including her grandmother and friends, all appearing healthy and in their prime. Jesus appeared, radiating light but not hard to look at, and told her, "You're going to love it here. Everything fits."
The Life Review and its Impact [36:39]
In Jesus' presence, individuals undergo a life review, watching scenes from their life and feeling the emotions involved. The emphasis is on relational interactions rather than accomplishments. Howard Storm's experience is shared, where he realized the importance of how he treated his students. The life review is a transformative experience, highlighting the importance of love and relationships.
Addressing Fears About Heaven [40:24]
Abigail shares her past fear of heaven, stemming from the idea of being separated from loved ones, particularly her husband, due to the belief that marriage does not exist in heaven. Burke addresses this misconception, stating that Jesus' words about no marrying or giving in marriage refer to new unions, as procreation will no longer be necessary. He emphasizes that relationships deepen in heaven, and God would not tear apart what he is trying to teach us about love.
Imagining Heaven and God's Delight [45:19]
Burke stresses the importance of imagining heaven, as it influences how we live our lives. He shares that those who were faithful to God were looking for a heavenly city. He also shares that God loves to delight us and prepares things we would love in His kingdom. He shares that near-death experiencers say that their family was going to be okay and that we're never really that far apart.
Stories of God's Personal Touch in Heaven [48:56]
Burke shares stories illustrating God's personal touch in heaven. Jim Woodford, a commercial airline pilot, had a near-death experience where he was rescued by angels and given a flyover of the holy city. He smelled tapioca, a scent associated with his grandmother's love. God shows people things that would mean something to them.
Guardian Angels and the Books of Life [58:59]
Burke discusses the concept of guardian angels, which he initially doubted but now believes in based on near-death experiences. He describes them as tall and regal, often appearing in pairs. Jim Woodford learned that one of the angels was his guardian from conception. Burke also mentions scribe angels who record our lives in books of life, which are used during life reviews.
The Purpose of Evil and Dinosaurs in Heaven [1:02:24]
Burke suggests that God allows a limited experience of good and evil on Earth to teach innocent angels why never to rebel, reinforcing their free will to love God. He addresses the question of why a loving God allows so much evil and suffering, proposing that it is a small fraction of a larger plan for us to choose to love and follow God forever. When asked about dinosaurs in heaven, Burke admits he has not heard of them but notes that people have seen bizarre creatures.
Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two [1:07:40]
Abigail concludes the episode and announces that there will be a part two with John Burke, where they will discuss experiences of hell.