TLDR;
This interview with Steve Bannon covers his vision for America, his strategies for achieving it, and his perspective on global populist movements. Bannon envisions an America where the working class and middle class thrive under a truly capitalist system, free from corporatism. He views the current political climate as a war, aiming for control of institutions and a citizen-first approach. Bannon also touches on Trump's potential third term and his role as a vehicle of "divine providence." Finally, Bannon discusses his involvement in populist nationalist movements in Europe, expressing enthusiasm for their accomplishments.
- Bannon wants America where working class and middle class thrive under capitalism.
- He views current political climate as a war, aiming for institutional control.
- Bannon believes Trump will have a third term and is a vehicle of "divine providence".
- He is involved in populist nationalist movements in Europe.
The Economist interviews Steve Bannon [0:00]
The interviewer welcomes Steve Bannon to the show, noting that the intention is to have a conversation with someone holding a different worldview. The interviewer identifies themselves as classical liberals, while Bannon is described as a populist nationalist. The goal is to understand Bannon's vision for America, especially considering the ongoing "MAGA revolution".
What kind of America does Bannon want to build? [0:52]
Bannon describes his ideal America as one where the working and middle classes share in the nation's prosperity, facilitated by a return to true capitalism, as opposed to the current corporatism. He emphasizes the need to empower the "little guy," upon whom the entire system rests. Bannon characterizes the current state as a "political war," with the ultimate goal of his side being in charge, controlling institutions and the political process to reclaim the country and prioritize its citizens, fostering an entrepreneurial capitalist environment for average citizens. He asserts his movement will not back down until this vision is realized and claims they are currently winning.
Bannon on seizing America’s institutions [2:00]
Bannon dismisses the idea of calming things down, arguing that passivity will lead to defeat. He believes in warning people and rallying them to action, representing the working class who have historically saved the country in times of crisis. Bannon sees the populist nationalist MAGA movement as resilient and anti-fragile, capable of withstanding attacks. He asserts they will never quit, apologize, or surrender, focusing solely on achieving victory. When asked if he thinks his role is to accelerate the crisis, Bannon says that to avoid civil conflict, the populist nationalist movement needs to bind together tighter and seize the institutions. He believes that this will force the Democratic party to adjust and start winning elections. Bannon mentions figures like Russ Vote who have spent years planning this strategy, emphasizing the need to strike now. He credits Trump with redefining politics and power in America through populism and nationalism, stopping the managed decline of the country by the elites.
Bannon says Trump will have a third term [6:15]
Bannon states that Trump will be president in 2028, brushing aside the 22nd amendment and claiming there is a plan to make it happen. He describes Trump as a vehicle of "divine providence," an imperfect instrument of divine will needed for at least one more term to finish what was started. When questioned about the coherence of advocating for another term for Trump despite the constitutional limitations, Bannon questions why the 22nd amendment makes it clear that he cannot have another term. He argues that if the American people put Trump back in office, it would not be tearing up the constitution or going against its spirit. He dismisses the idea that Trump is a dictator, pointing to the compromises he has had to make. Bannon insists that Trump's continued stay in office depends on the will of the American people, which the Constitution embodies.
Banon’s role in populist nationalist movements in Europe [10:41]
Bannon clarifies he is not a populist globalist but a non-interventionist, favoring direct engagement with entities like the Chinese Communist Party. He recalls hosting gatherings in Europe, including Nigel Farage, to discuss Brexit and the importance of national sovereignty. Bannon assesses the state of populist parties in Europe, predicting Farage will be the next Prime Minister of Britain and expressing hope for Le Pen in France. He is enthusiastic about the accomplishments of these movements, noting they have faced significant opposition from state media and concentrated power. Bannon sees momentum building across Europe, from Hungary and Poland to Germany, Italy, and Spain. He advises these movements to stay focused and remember they are not alone, emphasizing their anti-fragility and the inevitability of their opponents' surrender if they persist. He highlights Farage's evolution, now discussing mass deportations, and believes these movements are driving the rightward shift needed to fix problems. Bannon reiterates the importance of 2028 to fully capitalize on the "age of Trump" and finish what was started, emphasizing Trump's understanding of the attacks he would face and his moral courage. He compares Trump to Moses, leading the people back to the Promised Land to make the necessary changes to save the country and restore its greatness.