TLDR;
This video features a conversation between Rev. Jock and his elder brother, Dr. Greg Carr, a leading voice in Afro-American studies. They discuss legacy, artistic responsibility, and the symbolism within Beyoncé's "Black Is King," drawing connections to African spiritual traditions and historical contexts. They also touch on the balance between sexuality and spirituality, the importance of cultural understanding, and the role of the artist in driving social change.
- First public dialogue of the Carr brothers
- Discussion of legacy, artistic responsibility, and the symbolism within Beyoncé's "Black Is King"
- Importance of cultural understanding and the role of the artist in driving social change
Introduction of Dr. Greg Carr [0:11]
Rev. Jock introduces his elder brother, Dr. Greg Carr, highlighting his academic achievements, including his degrees from Tennessee State University and Ohio State University, and his leadership in Afro-American studies. He emphasizes the significance of this being their first public dialogue. Dr. Carr acknowledges the transformative space that Infinity Fellowship provides and commends Rev. Jock's work. He also mentions the importance of Tennessee State University for them and the work that Rev. Jock did there to transform the campus.
Lineage and Legacy at Tennessee State University [7:18]
The brothers discuss their shared history as SGA presidents at Tennessee State University, noting they are the only two biological brothers to have held the position. They reflect on the lineage of leadership and the impact of their predecessors, such as Avon Williams, who fought for improvements and equity at the university. Dr. Carr shares an anecdote about Avon Williams expressing pride in their continued fight for progress. Rev. Jock emphasizes the importance of telling the story of their work at Tennessee State and connecting it to a broader legacy.
First Reactions to "Black Is King" [15:50]
Rev. Jock asks Dr. Carr about his initial reactions to Beyoncé's "Black Is King," considering Disney's involvement and its historical representation of African and African-American culture. Dr. Carr admits he had to borrow a password to watch it, expressing his skepticism towards Disney. He references Dr. Jared Ball's "Vernon philosophy" of media consumption, which questions the value of content from corporate platforms. Dr. Carr acknowledges Disney's recognition of the demographic shift towards Africa and the African diaspora.
Symbolism and Cultural Context in "Black Is King" [21:16]
Dr. Carr discusses the lack of connection to genealogy among some young Africans regarding the symbolism in "Black Is King." He references Ngugi wa Thiong'o's work on the separation of Africans through physical and cultural dismemberment. He highlights the preservation of African traditions in the diaspora and the debate over the authenticity of rituals. Dr. Carr explains the significance of various symbols in the film, such as leopard skins, cow horns, and the colors red and black, connecting them to Nilotic traditions and Kemetic spirituality.
Interpreting African Experiences Through Western Frameworks [28:11]
Dr. Carr emphasizes the importance of experiencing African culture without limited Western frameworks. He quotes Lucille Clifton on not submitting one's humanity to others for acceptance. He criticizes curated insights by non-Black institutional spaces that lack connection to African history and culture. Dr. Carr points out specific cultural references in "Black Is King," such as the Naboo symbol and the colors red and green, which critics often overlook. He also connects the film to the battle of Set and Horus from Kemetic tradition.
"WAP" vs. "Black Is King": A Matter of Depth [35:10]
Dr. Carr contrasts the depth and symbolism in "Black Is King" with the explicit sexuality in the music video "WAP." He describes "Black Is King" as a graduate student's dissertation on black symbolism, while "WAP" is a second grader's report. He notes the curated sexuality in Beyoncé's work versus the overt sexuality used for selling in "WAP." Dr. Carr reflects on the reactions to "WAP," observing that black people were offended by Kylie Jenner's presence, while he is not mad at Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion, understanding their expression through the lens of elemental and spiritual forces.
Balance and the Divine Feminine [40:10]
The conversation shifts to the importance of balance and understanding the divine feminine. Rev. Jock emphasizes that sexuality is a necessary part of human existence. Dr. Carr clarifies the concept of immaculate conception, explaining it as a connection of the god and goddess force energy, not necessarily virgin birth. He connects this to ancient Egyptian temples and the story of Asar and Aset. They discuss the need to filter experiences through an understanding of cultural and spiritual contexts.
Constricting Narratives and Generational Energy [47:19]
Dr. Carr addresses criticisms of "Black Is King" for allegedly constraining sexuality and LGBTQ+ identities. Rev. Jock emphasizes Infinity's encouragement of authentic selves and asks, "So what next?" He suggests that people should not be defined by their struggles but seek something deeper. Dr. Carr argues that Beyoncé is speaking from her own experience, and her work reflects a generational energy rooted in cosmic principles of divine feminine and masculine.
Colorism and the Artist's Responsibility [54:28]
Dr. Carr addresses the criticism of Beyoncé, a light-skinned person, centering herself in African womanhood and singing "Brown Skin Girl." He reflects on the pervasiveness of colorism and the importance of study and grounding in texts. Dr. Carr emphasizes that Beyoncé is attempting to inform her practice with study and build a bridge to connect with the broader community. He compares her approach to artists like Nina Simone and Paul Robeson, who used their art for social change.
The Role of the Artist and the Serenity of Acceptance [58:57]
Dr. Carr discusses the role and responsibility of the artist, referencing Paul Robeson's belief in using art for social transformation. He notes that every artist must make choices, sometimes contradicting previous ones. Dr. Carr emphasizes the importance of knowing and sharing information to avoid unnecessary conflicts. He quotes Cheikh Anta Diop and Théophile Obenga on the serenity that comes from studying the long history of humanity, beginning with one's own people.
Book Recommendations and Community Engagement [1:03:14]
The brothers provide book recommendations for further development and seeking balance, including "Fundamentals of the Yoruba Religion" by Chief Fama, William Bascom's work on sixteen cowries, and "Sex and the Empire That Is No More" by Larandori. They emphasize the importance of oral tradition and mouth-to-ear wisdom. Rev. Jock encourages viewers to support Infinity Fellowship and its community work, including building housing and intervening in times of crisis.
Blending Spiritual Systems and Artistic Expression [1:12:24]
Dr. Carr addresses concerns about Beyoncé blending ideas and images from various spiritual systems, arguing that few people achieve mastery beyond their specific experiences. He notes that even young continental Africans often lack knowledge of African history and culture beyond their own colony. Dr. Carr emphasizes that Beyoncé's gestures are points of departure, and one should not accuse her of stealing without filling in the blanks themselves. He compares her approach to artists like Carrie James Marshall, Kehinde Wiley, and Theaster Gates.
Expectations and Transformation [1:19:44]
Rev. Jock reflects on adjusting expectations and the line between performers and serious intellectuals using art for messages. He shares a personal anecdote about a group he admired who turned out to be more interested in superficial pursuits. Rev. Jock emphasizes that regardless of the images in "Black Is King," the goal is to inspire deep study and transformation. He recalls Michael Jackson's "Remember the Time" video as a landmark moment for depicting ancient Egypt in a more correct way.
Transitions and the Burden of Memory [1:25:54]
Dr. Carr reflects on recent transitions and the burden of institutional memory. He quotes Frantz Fanon on each generation discovering its destiny. Dr. Carr suggests that Beyoncé is doing what art is supposed to do, and her work is a barometer of society. He emphasizes the importance of serenity in accepting facts and fighting to change the world. Dr. Carr concludes by urging viewers to put things in context and not overestimate their contribution to the cosmic motion of reality.
Closing Remarks and Encouragement [1:29:14]
Rev. Jock expresses his love and appreciation for Dr. Carr, thanking him for sharing his knowledge and wisdom. He encourages viewers to support Infinity Fellowship and its work. Dr. Carr thanks Infinity for building a space that reflects the world they want to live in. Rev. Jock concludes with a poem by John Henry Clarke called "Encouragement Too," emphasizing hope and resilience.
