TLDR;
In this episode of Two Dudes Watch Cartoons, Alex and Evan are joined by Jake, a finalist from Survivor 45, to discuss the movie "Pokémon 2000." They share their personal experiences with Pokémon, discuss the movie's plot, characters, and music, and compare it to the first Pokémon movie. They also touch on various aspects of the Pokémon franchise, including favorite Pokémon, game preferences, and the resurgence of Pokémon's popularity.
- The trio discusses the plot, characters, and music of "Pokémon 2000," comparing it to the first movie.
- They share personal experiences with Pokémon, including favorite Pokémon, game preferences, and shiny hunting.
- The conversation touches on the cultural impact of Pokémon, its resurgence in popularity, and recent news related to animation and pop culture.
Introduction and Guest Introduction [0:00]
Evan and Alex introduce Jake, a Survivor 45 finalist, as their special guest. Jake expresses his enthusiasm for the podcast, stating that he is a fan of cartoons. The hosts explain how they invited Jake onto the show after noticing his tweets about cartoons. They then reveal that they will be discussing the movie "Pokémon 2000." Jake shares his lifelong love for Pokémon, including playing the games.
Survivor 45 Experience [1:48]
The hosts transition to discussing Jake's experience on Survivor 45. Evan shares that his younger brother, who works on Survivor, was a big fan of Jake and his positive personality. Jake expresses his surprise at the positive reception he received after the show, despite not winning. He explains that he went on the show for the experience, with the TV aspect being secondary. Evan contrasts this with his own negative fan response from being on TV. Jake shares a favorite moment from the season that wasn't shown on TV, involving philosophical discussions with another contestant. They also discuss the experience of disconnecting from phones and social media during the show.
Favorite Pokémon and Movie Comparison [6:24]
The conversation shifts to favorite Pokémon. Jake shares his love for the Treecko line from Pokémon Emerald. Evan reveals his favorites as Snorlax and Gengar, while Alex picks Infernape. They discuss how "Pokémon 2000" introduced Pokémon from the Johto region before they appeared in the TV show. The hosts then debate whether "Pokémon 2000" is better than the first Pokémon movie. Evan and Alex disagree, citing the first movie's more compelling story and themes. Jake initially agrees with the hosts but is eventually swayed by their arguments. They critique the villain's lack of motivation and the chosen one narrative in "Pokémon 2000."
Synopsis and Initial Impressions [11:06]
The hosts provide a quick synopsis of "Pokémon 2000" from Letterboxd, detailing Lawrence III's scheme to capture Lugia and Ash's role in saving the world. They note the movie's Tomato Meter score and box office success. The discussion then moves to the setting of the Orange Islands and the character of Tracey, who replaced Brock in the anime series.
Tracey's Role and Brock's Absence [12:33]
The hosts discuss Tracey's role in the movie and why he replaced Brock in the anime. They note that Tracey lacks Brock's comedic value and utility as a cook and doctor. Evan shares that network executives were concerned Brock would be a negative stereotype for Asians due to his eyes. They also mention that Brock makes a cameo in the movie and eventually returns to the anime. The hosts agree that the original trio of Ash, Misty, and Brock had an unbeatable dynamic. They compare Tracey to other side characters in the series, noting that he lacks a distinct personality or utility.
Island Festival and Melody's Character [18:24]
The group discusses the island festival in the movie, noting that it seems like a tourist attraction rather than an annual event. They question the purpose of the boat driver character and criticize the lack of meaningful relationships in the movie. The hosts point out that a central plot point involves getting caught in a storm on a boat, similar to the first movie. They also discuss the character of Melody, noting the tension and jealousy between her and Misty. The hosts criticize Misty's character in the movie, saying she is reduced to simping over Ash.
Melody's Role and Movie Score [23:44]
The hosts continue to discuss Melody's role, noting that she is the voice of Max in later Pokémon seasons. They describe her as a cheerleader-type character. The conversation transitions to a promotional segment for Lou kitchenware, with a discount code for listeners. The group then returns to discussing the movie, noting that the local custom turns out to be a crucial tradition.
Lawrence III and the Floating Fortress [25:33]
The hosts discuss Lawrence III, the movie's villain, and his floating fortress. They admire the fortress's design but criticize the lack of depth in the story and mythology of the legendary birds. The movie is described as a chase for a McGuffin. The hosts praise Slowking as the best part of the movie, highlighting his humorous lines and unique design. They also discuss Lugia and the legendary birds, questioning why Ho-Oh was not included in the movie.
Lugia's Typing and HM Slaves [29:49]
The group questions Lugia's psychic/flying typing and why it doesn't have a water typing. They discuss the strategy of using HM slaves in the Pokémon games and which HMs are useful. The hosts then share their favorite legendary birds, with Alex picking Zapdos, Jake choosing Articuno (and later Zapdos due to Team Instinct in Pokémon Go), and Evan favoring Moltres. They also discuss the updated forms of the legendary birds in Sword and Shield.
Moltres Design and Ash's Inconsistencies [35:17]
The hosts continue discussing the new Moltres design, with Evan comparing it to a fifth-grader's creation. They also mention the new Zapdos design and its resemblance to Doduo. The conversation shifts to Ash's inconsistencies in remembering things he should know about Pokémon. The hosts joke about Ash being perpetually 10 years old and suggest potential upgrades for Lugia's design.
Lawrence III's Motivations and Plot Holes [38:24]
The group discusses the simplicity of the movie's plot, with Ash traveling to different islands while Lawrence III tries to capture the legendary birds. They criticize the lack of direct opposition between Ash and Lawrence III and the villain's weak motivation. The hosts also point out plot holes, such as Professor Oak's presence on the helicopter and his limited knowledge of Pokémon.
Funniest Lines and Team Rocket [45:35]
The hosts share their favorite funny lines from the movie, including Ash's "Frozen One" moment and Team Rocket's back-and-forth about saving the world. They praise Team Rocket's comedic contributions to the show. The group also discusses questionable decisions in the movie, such as Pikachu sitting in the sled while other Pokémon pull it.
Boat Scene and Bird's Breakout [49:49]
The hosts discuss the scene where Melody sails a boat up a mountain and question why the legendary birds immediately attack Lugia after breaking out of the sky fortress. They compare Lugia to a parent trying to stop siblings from fighting. Evan mentions that the movie was nominated for a Stinkers Worst Movie of the Year award but lost to Digimon: The Movie.
Political Significance and Movie Ending [52:40]
The group discusses the political significance of the song "The Power of One" from the movie, noting that Herman Cain quoted it in 2011. They also compare this to Hillary Clinton's "Pokémon Go to the polls" comment. The hosts then discuss the movie's ending, where Ash gets the three crystals, Melody sings the song, and the war stops. They note that Ash doesn't try to catch Lugia, which is consistent with his character.
Ash's Character and Pokedex [55:26]
The hosts discuss Ash's character, noting that he is not focused on catching Pokémon or completing his Pokédex. They also point out that Ash's Pokémon are strong but rarely evolve. The conversation shifts to Ash's improvement as a trainer over the course of the series and his eventual victory in the Pokémon World Championships. The hosts conclude that Ash didn't learn anything from this movie and that there was no clear message.
Riverside FM and Closing Thoughts [59:51]
The hosts promote Riverside FM, the platform they use to record the podcast remotely. They then share their closing thoughts on the movie, with Evan saying it was worse than he remembered and Alex saying it was disappointing. Jake agrees, saying that the movie lacks Pokémon battles and that he always preferred the first and third movies.
Letterboxd Reviews and Ratings [1:01:00]
The hosts read some Letterboxd reviews of the movie, including one that jokes about Articuno being a "bluebird" and another where someone apologizes to their mom for making her see the movie. They then give their ratings for the movie, with Evan giving it two stars and Alex giving it 2.5 stars. Jake says the movie is a "Pokémon 2" rather than a "Pokémon 1."
Favorite Games and Gym Leader Types [1:08:53]
The conversation shifts to favorite Pokémon games, with Jake picking Pokémon Black and White/Black 2 and White 2 and Alex choosing HeartGold and SoulSilver. They then discuss what type of Pokémon they would choose if they were gym leaders, with Jake picking fire due to his fire-making skills on Survivor.
Survivor and Pokemon [1:11:19]
The hosts discuss how Jake's fire-making skills on Survivor influenced his choice of fire-type Pokémon. They also mention the cultural swing in Pokémon's popularity, noting its resurgence in recent years. The conversation touches on the influence of Pokémon cards, Logan Paul, and the Nintendo Switch on the franchise's comeback.
Shiny Hunting and News [1:15:10]
The group discusses shiny hunting in Pokémon games, with Jake sharing his lack of success in finding shiny Pokémon. Evan then shares some news, including that "The Boy and the Heron" surpassed "Pokémon 2000" as the third highest-grossing anime film in the US. He also mentions the popularity of animated shows on streaming services and the upcoming live-action Bob the Builder movie.
Elmo and Larry David [1:18:59]
Alex shares news about Elmo's eventful week, including getting trauma dumped on Twitter and being attacked by Larry David on a morning show. The hosts joke about the incident and imagine a movie about Elmo suing Larry David. Evan shares additional news, including Jim Carrey reprising his role as Dr. Robotnik in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Donald Glover confirming the Community movie script is done.
Wrap Up and Outro [1:23:27]
The hosts thank Jake for coming on the show and promote his Twitch stream and social media accounts. They also thank their listeners and encourage them to rate, review, and share the podcast. The episode ends with a final farewell and outro music.