Brief Summary
In this YouTube video, Arif Hussain Theruvath interviews Nurya, a British Pakistani ex-Muslim, about her journey out of Islam, the current state of Islamization in the UK, and related sociopolitical issues. Nurya shares her personal experiences, her views on the grooming gang scandals, the parallel Sharia courts, and the challenges faced by minorities in Pakistan. The discussion also touches on the influence of religious figures in politics and sports, and the complex relationship between India and Pakistan.
- Nurya's journey from a devout Muslim to an ex-Muslim.
- The impact of Islamization on British society and culture.
- The grooming gang scandals and the role of Pakistani diaspora.
- The influence of religious figures in politics and sports.
- The complex relationship between India and Pakistan.
Introduction
Arif Hussain Theruvath introduces Nurya, a British Pakistani ex-Muslim from the UK. He expresses his gratitude for her accepting his invitation, which took almost a year. Nurya apologizes to Arif's viewers for the delay, promising to be more prompt in the future. Arif then asks Nurya to share her background, particularly concerning the current situation in the UK, which he refers to as "Londonistan" due to perceived Islamization and the influence of Sharia law.
Islamization of the UK
Nurya acknowledges that Arif's title might seem suggestive but agrees that it reflects the reality. She notes that from an outside perspective, the UK appears to be increasingly difficult for freethinkers from Islamic backgrounds to live in and speak their truth. While she wouldn't return to Pakistan, she sees the UK moving closer to a similar environment with its approach to blasphemy and the concept of "offending the institution of Islam," leading to a cancel culture for people like themselves.
Candid with Lumina
Arif inquires about Candid with Lumina, a British Pakistani YouTuber who has faced issues and deleted her videos. Nurya is aware of her channel and believes Lumina, a self-identified Muslim, likely faced backlash from the British Pakistani community for discussing sensitive topics like the grooming gang scandal and the Israel-Palestine conflict. Nurya suggests that Lumina may have felt unsafe to continue due to pressure to conform to specific narratives.
Insider vs. Outsider Criticism of Islam
Arif asks whether it's more dangerous to criticize Islam from within or as an ex-Muslim. Nurya initially thought it would be safer as an insider, but she personally finds it impossible to take that stance because she believes the rot is at the root of Islam itself. She feels more comfortable calling out Islam directly rather than trying to reform it from within.
Nurya's Journey to Becoming an Ex-Muslim
Nurya shares her background as a third-generation British Pakistani from a traditional Sunni Muslim family. She attended mosque daily and wore hijab from age nine, taking her faith seriously despite her parents being relatively liberal. Moving to Saudi Arabia, she initially adhered to stricter religious customs but was exposed to other faiths, opening her mind. Later, living in Dubai, she found a more relaxed Islamic environment. Studying Sharia law in university led her to question women's rights within marriage. A difficult divorce in Dubai, where she faced archaic Sharia laws like "Ta'a," which allows a husband to force a disobedient wife to return home, prompted her to research Islam and ultimately leave the religion.
Sharia Law and Divorce
Arif asks Nurya to compare her experience with the UAE princess who announced her divorce via Instagram. Nurya explains that while some men in GCC countries can divorce their wives via text, this is a recent development. The princess likely used her special privileges, but even then, she had to flee to London for safety. Nurya highlights that Sharia law can still be used to grant custody to the father, underscoring the power imbalance.
Religion, Poverty, and Women
Arif asks if religion lands hard upon the financially less affluent and women. Nurya agrees, stating that religion traps women through manipulation and abuse tactics, creating a sense of internalized Stockholm syndrome. She adds that the poorest and most vulnerable cling to the hope that there is something better in the afterlife.
Liberation from Islam
Nurya describes that leaving Islam was internally liberating, freeing her from warped concepts of sin and shame. Although she was met with disapproval from those around her, she felt empowered by shedding the hijab and questioning religious norms.
Transformation and Return to the UK
Nurya reflects on returning to the UK after living in Saudi Arabia and Dubai. She describes it as seeing two different Englands: one where she felt like an outsider as a young Muslim girl, and another where she could embrace the country wholeheartedly after leaving Islam. She emphasizes the freedom to engage with British culture and form friendships without religious restrictions.
Islamization of the UK and Grooming Gangs
Arif asks Nurya to comment on the Islamization of the UK, grooming gangs, and the rise of the right wing. Nurya explains that she was unaware of the grooming gang scandals while growing up in the Middle East due to limited access to unbiased information. Upon learning about the scandals after leaving Islam, she was appalled and began to question the narrative she had been taught about Tommy Robinson, who was speaking out against the issue. She researched Robinson's views and found them to be valid, leading her to change her stance on him.
Pakistani Men and Grooming Gangs
Arif asks if there is a problem with Pakistani men being disproportionately involved in grooming gangs. Nurya acknowledges that the majority of perpetrators are Pakistani or British Pakistani, often from the Mirpur region. She explains that their codes of honor and protection prevent them from reporting each other, and the UK has been hesitant to address this issue due to fears of disrupting community relations.
Government Response to Grooming Gangs
Nurya notes that thanks to voices like Tommy Robinson, the Maki Oliver Foundation, and Elon Musk, the issue has gained more attention. While there has been a documentary released and increased public conversation, justice for the victims is still lacking. Politicians are now forced to confront the issue head-on, and Tommy Robinson's past vilification is being re-evaluated.
New Voices and the Anti-Woke Movement
Nurya observes a growing anti-woke movement with independent media, journalists, and politicians who are willing to say that Islam might be a problem and that some immigrants have not assimilated. They are less concerned about being labeled racist or Islamophobic, as these labels are losing their impact.
Parallel Sharia Courts in the UK
Arif asks about the parallel Sharia courts in the UK and their impact on Muslim women. Nurya explains that in predominantly Muslim areas, Islamic community centers and Muslim councils, led by imams, handle civil and family matters instead of using British law. These rulings often disadvantage women, making it difficult for them to get divorced or receive fair inheritance.
Two-Tier Policing in the UK
Arif inquires about the alleged two-tier policing in the UK, where Islamic extremist factions are given lenient treatment. Nurya confirms that under the current Metropolitan Police leadership, pro-Palestinian rallies often involve vandalism and harassment with minimal police intervention, while British patriots face heavy-handed responses for minor infractions. This has led to Jews feeling unsafe in London and criticism of the UK's approach.
Dawa Gangs in the UK
Arif asks about the Dawa gangs in the UK, such as Muhammad Hijab and Ali Dawa, and their activities at Speaker's Corner. Nurya expresses sadness at the state of Speaker's Corner, which she used to enjoy as a child. She would not go there now due to the risk of violence. She believes the appeal of figures like Muhammad Hijab and Ali Dawa is diminishing due to their controversial actions.
India and Pakistan
Arif discusses the transformation of Pakistani cricketers into hardcore Islamists and religious figures. Nurya believes this is due to the nature of the game in Pakistan, where former cricketers often fall back on religion to remain relevant. Arif notes that religious communication and attempts to convert others happen frequently, even on the field, triggering responses and radicalization.
Religious Displays and Radicalization
Nurya states that Islam encourages converting others, and she recalls instances of Pakistani cricketers pressuring teammates to convert. She highlights the concept of Pakistan as a country for Muslims and the resulting pressure to invite others to Islam.
Opinion on India and Recent Attacks
Arif asks for Nurya's opinion on India and recent attacks, such as the Pahelgam attack. Nurya expresses her condolences for the victims of the terror attack. She notes that her view of India has changed, and she recalls growing up in a Pakistani household where Bollywood films and Hindu prayers were viewed negatively.
Kashmir Issue
Nurya shares that after leaving Islam, she researched the Kashmir issue and concluded that Pakistan was often the aggressor. She now believes India has every right to defend itself, applying similar principles to the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Madrasas and Education in Pakistan
Arif asks about reports of madrasas in Pakistan teaching that the earth is flat. Nurya confirms that this is true and that even in normal schools, the Quran is prioritized over scientific facts. Scientific facts are often presented as mere theories.
Anti-India Sentiment in Pakistan
Arif asks why Pakistani children are often taught to view India as an enemy. Nurya explains that it's a combination of Islamic theology, which views Hinduism as the worst sin, and the historical narrative of Pakistan separating from India. She recalls being told as a child that Hindus were "kafirs" and that idol worship was wrong.
Idol Worship and Historical Context
Nurya explains that the prophet Muhammad breaking idols in the Kaaba is a key event used to emphasize the sinfulness of idol worship. She notes that the Pakistani education system promotes nationalistic pride and propped-up heroes, contributing to anti-India sentiment.
Minority Persecutions in Pakistan
Arif asks about the persecution of minorities in Pakistan. Nurya states that minorities face the typical challenges of living under Islamic dominance. She notes the declining numbers of Christians, Hindus, and Ahmedis in Pakistan and the various forms of persecution they face, including blasphemy laws being used to target them.
Jamaat Islami in Pakistan
Arif asks about the Jamaat Islami in Pakistan. Nurya states that they still exist and try to exert their authority. She notes that extremist slogans and chants often stem from movements like this. She highlights the dangers of various extremist factions vying for power in a country with high poverty and illiteracy.
Conclusion
Arif thanks Nurya for the enlightening discussion. Nurya thanks Arif for having her on and praises his "exes" poem, referring to his shedding of various limiting identities. Arif invites viewers to subscribe to Nurya's channel, Holy Humanist, and praises her as one of the most active and courageous ex-Muslims.
